Discussion:
[SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?
Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-lists2@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-24 19:06:39 UTC
Permalink
I define "Roll Your Own Agile" (RYOA) as roughly ~~ being an attempt at being/doing Agile software development that is not based on(or has a history of) one of the major well defined Agile approaches (XP, Scrum, Crystal, AUP, etc, et al.)... (for purposes of our discussion, let's consider Kanban as a well defined Agile approach -- even tho that might be highly debatable by some-- but let's not get distracted/hijacked by that side conversation!)
For instance, I don't really consider Spottify RYOA since what they do is very close to Scrum, and I believe they started out with Scrum. (CMIIW)

I would assume that anyone out there trying to do RYOA would be basing their approach almost solely on the Agile Manifesto principles and values... a sort of "clean room" approach if you will.  (Obviously all of the well defined approaches probably started as RYOA, but I'm not interested in those)

(Remember, I'm talking only about software teams here)
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company?  Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching
Adam Sroka adam.sroka@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-24 21:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Historically all of the “established Agile methods” were “RYOA” before
there was an “A.” Before Snowbird they were calling them “lightweight” but
nobody really cared for that.

More to the point, I think that any method that has been mindfully applied
and adapted to a particular team/product/organizational context will look
different from every other one. If your Scrum continues to be by-the-book
Scrum after months or years then your retrospectives are probably a waste
of time.

One of the problems I have with the current status quo in the Agile
consulting industry is that we send out consultants who don’t know the
difference between useful adaptations and “not doing it right.” That takes
a number of years to cultivate and a deliberate discipline of listening
before giving advice.


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum
Post by Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-***@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
I define "Roll Your Own Agile" (RYOA) as roughly ~~ being an attempt at
being/doing Agile software development that is not based on(or has a
history of) one of the major well defined Agile approaches (XP, Scrum,
Crystal, AUP, etc, et al.)... (for purposes of our discussion, let's
consider Kanban as a well defined Agile approach -- even tho that might be
highly debatable by some-- but let's not get distracted/hijacked by that
side conversation!)
For instance, I don't really consider Spottify RYOA since what they do is
very close to Scrum, and I believe they started out with Scrum. (CMIIW)
I would assume that anyone out there trying to do RYOA would be basing
their approach almost solely on the Agile Manifesto principles and
values... a sort of "clean room" approach if you will. (Obviously all of
the well defined approaches probably started as RYOA, but I'm not
interested in those)
(Remember, I'm talking only about software teams here)
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a
good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a
unicorn?
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com <http://agilesoftwaretraining.com/>
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching
Eric Gunnerson Eric.Gunnerson@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 05:48:01 UTC
Permalink
I agree strongly with Adam on this.

I see a lot of groups who view agile as a destination rather than a journey. They pick a methodology – it seems always to be Scrum – make some changes up front, and then standardize on that. I used to think that they were totally missing the incremental and experimental nature of agile. I’ve grown a bit more cynical recently, and I think that sometimes it’s just that the comfort of the status quo is more important to management than results.

Charles, to answer your question: I’ve spent a bit of time talking with the folks at Yammer. I don’t know where they started, but they have a very unique process right now that doesn’t look a lot like the methodologies that I’m familiar with. I also think Etsy has a very interesting perspective.


From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 1:44 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?


Historically all of the “established Agile methods” were “RYOA” before there was an “A.” Before Snowbird they were calling them “lightweight” but nobody really cared for that.

More to the point, I think that any method that has been mindfully applied and adapted to a particular team/product/organizational context will look different from every other one. If your Scrum continues to be by-the-book Scrum after months or years then your retrospectives are probably a waste of time.

One of the problems I have with the current status quo in the Agile consulting industry is that we send out consultants who don’t know the difference between useful adaptations and “not doing it right.” That takes a number of years to cultivate and a deliberate discipline of listening before giving advice.


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-***@emailchuck.com<mailto:chuck-***@emailchuck.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


I define "Roll Your Own Agile" (RYOA) as roughly ~~ being an attempt at being/doing Agile software development that is not based on(or has a history of) one of the major well defined Agile approaches (XP, Scrum, Crystal, AUP, etc, et al.)... (for purposes of our discussion, let's consider Kanban as a well defined Agile approach -- even tho that might be highly debatable by some-- but let's not get distracted/hijacked by that side conversation!)

For instance, I don't really consider Spottify RYOA since what they do is very close to Scrum, and I believe they started out with Scrum. (CMIIW)

I would assume that anyone out there trying to do RYOA would be basing their approach almost solely on the Agile Manifesto principles and values... a sort of "clean room" approach if you will. (Obviously all of the well defined approaches probably started as RYOA, but I'm not interested in those)

(Remember, I'm talking only about software teams here)

Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fagilesoftwaretraining.com%2f&data=01%7c01%7cEric.Gunnerson%40microsoft.com%7c41b020b4b7374ccfca8a08d2f5186c96%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=rokxNqXK1sFlIxR%2bXYi2HbM6hwLg2Q%2fLEiOwk35MviY%3d>
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching
Adrian Howard adrianh@quietstars.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-26 17:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Charles, to answer your question: I’ve spent a bit of time talking with the folks at Yammer. I don’t know where they started, but they have a very unique process right now that doesn’t look a lot like the methodologies that I’m familiar with. I also think Etsy has a very interesting perspective.
Two more that spring to mind:

* Netflix — from what I’ve heard they have much more focus on individual autonomy than many agile frameworks, but it still feels pretty aligned with Agile values.

* Programmer Anarchy – the stuff that Fred George talks about feels very, very Agile to me, but rejects some common agile practices.

Cheers,

Adrian
--
***@quietstars.com / +44 (0)7752 419080 / @adrianh / quietstars.com
- Get the Agile & Lean UX newsletter here > http://bit.ly/agileleanux -
Michael Wollin yahoo@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 06:26:03 UTC
Permalink
I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Adam Sroka adam.sroka@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 06:29:03 UTC
Permalink
I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you
asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and
Lean and not as "roll your own..."
Post by Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the
guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban,
mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
On Nov 24, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a
good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a
unicorn?
Michael Wollin yahoo@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 06:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Fair enough. But at what point have they crossed into something new? I suppose it's arbitrary, and that organic evolution into new territories is what all teams should be doing anyway if they were truly agile.

On Nov 24, 2015, at 10:29 PM, Adam Sroka ***@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."
Post by Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Adam Sroka adam.sroka@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 22:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Fair enough. But at what point have they crossed into something new? I
suppose it's arbitrary, and that organic evolution into new territories is
what all teams should be doing anyway if they were truly agile.
Yes. This is similar to what I believe.

I have had the opportunity to discuss things like mob programming and no
estimates face-to-face with Woody. I know why he did what he did and why he
didn’t do other things, because he explained it to me. He didn’t just add
mob programming because he didn’t like pair programming. He did it as an
experiment and it was so successful that they never looked back. He didn’t
just throw away estimates because he hates them. He carefully studied the
impact they were (not) having, and did experiments with doing something
more Kanban like. It is all very deliberate and guided by Agile principles.
That is what matters.
Eric Gunnerson Eric.Gunnerson@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 20:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Adam, can you explain why it matters?

From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?



I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com<mailto:***@mercurysw.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Adam Sroka adam.sroka@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-25 22:07:03 UTC
Permalink
I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that picks
and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is
adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on
certain values and principles.

In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when you
don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it.
However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart
pretty quickly.


On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson
Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Adam, can you explain why it matters?
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?
I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you
asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and
Lean and not as "roll your own..."
I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the
guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban,
mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
On Nov 24, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a
good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a
unicorn?
Eric Gunnerson Eric.Gunnerson@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-26 01:10:52 UTC
Permalink
I agree with that; under my definition you have to be incremental and experimental or you aren’t agile.

I’ve become a bit less excited about defined methodologies as a starting point, mostly because the adoption is neither incremental and experimental. I see a lot of what I call “frozen scrum” implementations; the team adopted scrum (or, more typically, scrum with some variations based on what management wants) as a plug-and-play replacement for their current process, and then they just stick with that exact process. I’ve been wondering that if you try to adopt your way in incrementally, you will end up with better understanding of individual practices and perhaps you end up with a culture that at least has some support for experimentation.


From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 2:07 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?


I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on certain values and principles.

In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it. However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart pretty quickly.


On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com<mailto:***@microsoft.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Adam, can you explain why it matters?

From: ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?



I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com<mailto:***@mercurysw.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Adam Sroka adam.sroka@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-26 02:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
I agree with that; under my definition you have to be incremental and
experimental or you aren’t agile.
That is a reasonable thing to include in the definition. It is hinted at
multiple times (some more explicit than others) in the principles of the
Agile Manifesto.
Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
I’ve become a bit less excited about defined methodologies as a starting
point, mostly because the adoption is neither incremental and experimental.
I see a lot of what I call “frozen scrum” implementations; the team adopted
scrum (or, more typically, scrum with some variations based on what
management wants) as a plug-and-play replacement for their current process,
and then they just stick with that exact process. I’ve been wondering that
if you try to adopt your way in incrementally, you will end up with better
understanding of individual practices and perhaps you end up with a culture
that at least has some support for experimentation.
I don’t have any problem with using a defined method as a starting point.
Although, I don’t think it is strictly necessary. I do have a problem when
a defined method is dictated and strictly controlled by the PMO, which is
the way a lot of folks seem to go (Many of the SAFE crowd, for example.)

I know that Ken Schwaber and other prominent members of the Scrum community
feel that you should start with Scrum exactly as it is defined and then use
it as a framework from which to inspect and adapt. The XP approach of
starting with a lot of technical discipline and few other rules is better
suited to my personal style, but Scrum is still a really, really effective
starting point in many contexts (and not in others
)
Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-lists2@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-12-07 20:40:12 UTC
Permalink
+1 and well said, Adam. 

I realize that it's hard for anyone to draw a line between something that was "clean room" or "cooking from scratch" when it comes to RYOA, but I appreciate everyone trying to go with me on this thread.
What I've gathered here and elsewhere is that there is not a lot of evidence of RYOA (clean room, from scratch) existing, much less widely successful.  It seems that the vast majority of (team level) Agile in practice is based strongly on one of the well defined approaches -- or at least it evolved from one of them.
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching

From: "Adam Sroka ***@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?

#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679 -- #yiv4524448679 .yiv4524448679ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679photo-title a, #yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679photo-title a:active, #yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679photo-title a:hover, #yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679attach-table div.yiv4524448679attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679attach-table div.yiv4524448679attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv4524448679 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679attach-table div.yiv4524448679attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679attach-table div.yiv4524448679attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv4524448679 div.yiv4524448679ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679 --#yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp #yiv4524448679hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp #yiv4524448679ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp .yiv4524448679ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp .yiv4524448679ad p {margin:0;}#yiv4524448679 #yiv4524448679ygrp-mkp .yiv4524448679ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv4524448679

I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on certain values and principles. 
In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it. However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart pretty quickly. 

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Adam, can you explain why it matters? From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?   I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Michael Wollin yahoo@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-12-07 21:06:58 UTC
Permalink
I wonder what form of project management the Pharaoh's engineers used?

On Dec 7, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-***@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

+1 and well said, Adam.

I realize that it's hard for anyone to draw a line between something that was "clean room" or "cooking from scratch" when it comes to RYOA, but I appreciate everyone trying to go with me on this thread.

What I've gathered here and elsewhere is that there is not a lot of evidence of RYOA (clean room, from scratch) existing, much less widely successful. It seems that the vast majority of (team level) Agile in practice is based strongly on one of the well defined approaches -- or at least it evolved from one of them.
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching

From: "Adam Sroka ***@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?



I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on certain values and principles.

In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it. However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart pretty quickly.


On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Adam, can you explain why it matters?

From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?


I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Alan Dayley alandd@dayleyagile.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-12-07 21:10:54 UTC
Permalink
In the '80's and '90's I worked on two software development teams that I
now would call Agile. Neither team subscribed to any specific framework.
And, I think, we were all ignorant of the Agile Manifesto, Scrum, etc. We
were just great teams that sought the best results possible with the
freedom self-organize in an atmosphere of respect.

I know "roll your own" is possible but my experience is that the people who
succeed don't know they are doing it.

Alan
Post by Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
I wonder what form of project management the Pharaoh's engineers used?
On Dec 7, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer
+1 and well said, Adam.
I realize that it's hard for anyone to draw a line between something that
was "clean room" or "cooking from scratch" when it comes to RYOA, but I
appreciate everyone trying to go with me on this thread.
What I've gathered here and elsewhere is that there is not a lot of
evidence of RYOA (clean room, from scratch) existing, much less widely
successful. It seems that the vast majority of (team level) Agile in
practice is based strongly on one of the well defined approaches -- or at
least it evolved from one of them.
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com <http://agilesoftwaretraining.com/>
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching
------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:07 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?
I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that
picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is
adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on
certain values and principles.
In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when
you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it.
However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart
pretty quickly.
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson
Adam, can you explain why it matters?
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?
I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you
asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and
Lean and not as "roll your own..."
I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the
guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban,
mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
On Nov 24, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a
good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a
unicorn?
Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-lists2@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-12-07 22:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Well played, Michael, well played.  :-)
 -------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching

From: "Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?

#yiv8768573188 #yiv8768573188 -- #yiv8768573188 .yiv8768573188ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188photo-title a, #yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188photo-title a:active, #yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188photo-title a:hover, #yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188attach-table div.yiv8768573188attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188attach-table div.yiv8768573188attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv8768573188 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188attach-table div.yiv8768573188attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188attach-table div.yiv8768573188attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv8768573188 div.yiv8768573188ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv8768573188 #yiv8768573188

I wonder what form of project management the Pharaoh's engineers used?  
On Dec 7, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-***@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  +1 and well said, Adam. 

I realize that it's hard for anyone to draw a line between something that was "clean room" or "cooking from scratch" when it comes to RYOA, but I appreciate everyone trying to go with me on this thread.
What I've gathered here and elsewhere is that there is not a lot of evidence of RYOA (clean room, from scratch) existing, much less widely successful.  It seems that the vast majority of (team level) Agile in practice is based strongly on one of the well defined approaches -- or at least it evolved from one of them.
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching

From: "Adam Sroka ***@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com" <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?



I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on certain values and principles. 
In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it. However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart pretty quickly. 

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Adam, can you explain why it matters? From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?   I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Wouter Lagerweij wouter@lagerweij.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-12-07 21:29:39 UTC
Permalink
It's a bit of a supurfluous idea, isn't it? Which of the existing named
agile processes do you see that is not evolved from other ideas?

Wouter

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum
Post by Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach chuck-***@emailchuck.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
+1 and well said, Adam.
I realize that it's hard for anyone to draw a line between something that
was "clean room" or "cooking from scratch" when it comes to RYOA, but I
appreciate everyone trying to go with me on this thread.
What I've gathered here and elsewhere is that there is not a lot of
evidence of RYOA (clean room, from scratch) existing, much less widely
successful. It seems that the vast majority of (team level) Agile in
practice is based strongly on one of the well defined approaches -- or at
least it evolved from one of them.
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com <http://agilesoftwaretraining.com/>
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching
------------------------------
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:07 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?
I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that
picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is
adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on
certain values and principles.
In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when
you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it.
However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart
pretty quickly.
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson
Adam, can you explain why it matters?
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?
I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you
asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and
Lean and not as "roll your own..."
I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the
guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban,
mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
On Nov 24, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a
good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a
unicorn?
--
Wouter Lagerweij | ***@lagerweij.com
http://www.lagerweij.com | @wouterla <http://twitter.com/#!/wouterla>
linkedin.com/in/lagerweij | +31(0)6 28553506
Eric Gunnerson Eric.Gunnerson@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-12-08 00:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Looking at the teams I’m most familiar with, the ones who are most successful – and meet my definition of agile (ie incremental and evolutionary in process) – aren’t starting at one of the defined approaches. They borrow from a number of sources, and I think Scrum is not the major source of their process.

The second group of teams are those that intend to adopt a methodology – and it’s always Scrum – directly. Their success depends on how well they do understanding what is important in scrum, but I haven’t seen any be as successful as the first group. They end up stuck in something that is pretty close to scrum – and they do get benefit from that – but I think they’re perplexed that they aren’t seeing more benefit.

The third – and largest group, unfortunately – is those that start with some version of Scrumbut, and I’m sure you already know how well those work out


Eric
From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 12:40 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?


+1 and well said, Adam.

I realize that it's hard for anyone to draw a line between something that was "clean room" or "cooking from scratch" when it comes to RYOA, but I appreciate everyone trying to go with me on this thread.

What I've gathered here and elsewhere is that there is not a lot of evidence of RYOA (clean room, from scratch) existing, much less widely successful. It seems that the vast majority of (team level) Agile in practice is based strongly on one of the well defined approaches -- or at least it evolved from one of them.
-------
Charles Bradley
Chief Executive Officer
Professional Scrum Trainer
http://AgileSoftwareTraining.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fagilesoftwaretraining.com%2f&data=01%7c01%7cEric.Gunnerson%40microsoft.com%7c34d5839dc69d491db4f108d2ff4724b0%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=caqYzM%2bdM2ebasDkWVKG8OgkCJmIP6I7fZxILWKbTd4%3d>
Agile Software - Training, Consulting, Coaching

________________________________
From: "Adam Sroka ***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]" <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>>
To: "***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>" <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?


I think there is a useful distinction between an eclectic method that picks and chooses the practices it likes and an evolutionary method that is adapted carefully to its context while keeping the knobs turned up on certain values and principles.

In practice it may be difficult to tell the difference, especially when you don’t know the history of how it evolved or the people who evolved it. However, I think most experienced coaches can be taught to tell them apart pretty quickly.


On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com<mailto:***@microsoft.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Adam, can you explain why it matters?

From: ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 10:29 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Roll Your Own Agile?


I know Woody and have a great deal of respect for him, but I bet if you asked him he would characterize his own approach as an evolution of XP and Lean and not as "roll your own..."

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Michael Wollin ***@mercurysw.com<mailto:***@mercurysw.com> [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

I think what naturally (organically) evolved at Hunter Systems under the guiding hand of Woody Zuill qualifies. It features some variant of Kanban, mob programming, no estimates, and their own status tracking system.
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
Nancy Van Schooenderwoert vanschoo@acm.org [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-11-26 16:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi Charles,

On 11/24/15, 2:06 PM, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and
Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Has anyone out there in Scrum-land ever seen what you consider to be a good RYOA approach work out well for a company? Or is RYOA essentially a unicorn?
As I see it there needs to be a set of conditions in place for any
kind of Agile software approach to succeed at a company level. Something
becomes a "unicorn" not because of its starting circumstances ("roll
your own" vs. seeded by Scrum, XP, etc.) but whether the company is
ready to recognize its value.

I had a good Agile team going in the late 90's but I hesitate to call
it "roll your own" because we had foundations in the spiral lifecycle
model being promoted by others. The very designation of "roll your own"
is fuzzy in that way.

But our company was most definitely NOT interested in our methods
even though they were glad to have bug-free on-time software releases.
These days it's very different because all companies are floating in a
context where Agile (some of its key practices at least) is recognized.

My point is that anything seen as too new is going to be resisted.
Until it survives long enough and grows to a point where it no longer
seems too new. When I was trying to promote Agile in 2002 among
companies in Boston, many managers told me straight out that they want
nothing to do with it *merely* because "I never heard of that". It
couldn't possibly be valid if they had not already heard of it. End of
discussion. It didn't matter that I had data on our work - "All
statistics are just made up." There's a lot of cynicism out there.

- njv
--
............................................
Agile hardware? Yes! Agile safety-critical Embedded Systems too

Nancy Van Schooenderwoert, Lean-Agile Partners Inc.

US mobile: 781 301 1822 ***@leanagilepartners.com
Twitter: @vanschoo http://www.leanagilepartners.com
............................................
rlpfamily@juno.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2016-02-02 02:20:20 UTC
Permalink
[ The Feature Blitz as an alternative to meetings like Planning Poker Parties. ]


I participated in an agile-scrum group that implemented much from the lean methodologies. This department was able to double programmer productivity almost immediately—but there was some temporary stress increase as the change from waterfall to agile was made—they were able to produce a User’s Guide for each feature while the programming and QA was happening, and they were able to release features most needed by customers in a truly agile and quick manner. They were able to accurately estimate four 8-month projects and deliver them on time while outperforming competing companies by a factor of 4 times their speed, something I haven't seen since. They accomplished this by the following practices and some others:


An analyst prepares some ideas for a project’s features and then schedules a meeting (Feature Blitz) where all the development team [domain expert(s), programmer, code reviewer, SQA engineer, the analyst, and any manager that really wanted to attend] decide the features needed, their specs, their implementation, the proposed order they will be coded and list of dependencies, breaks them into iteration-sized mini-projects, and at the end of the meeting assigns people to each of the above roles for each mini-project. The specs are the notes and digital photos from this meeting. Next each member of the team enters estimates of hours for them to finish their role’s work for each iteration or mini-project. The managers, in Iteration Planning, then swap around any resources or mini-project to maximize the use of everyone’s time, keeping in mind that changes may require the new team member to meet with the analyst or others to get up-to-speed on what happened at the Feature Blitz and that the new team member may not be able to do the role’s work as fast as the one who helped decide the particular implementation in the Feature Blitz. Next there is a commitment meeting where the development team (the four roles besides domain expert) commits to their deadlines even if they have to do overtime, which rarely happened because people became good at estimating their work ability. Simultaneously during an iteration, the analyst writes the User’s Guide, the QA engineer wrote a test suite with corner cases and exceptions that programming may not have thought about, the programmer and code reviewer discuss the details of the implementation and do the coding. Obstacles and progress were discussed frequently among the whole team and communicated to management and other stakeholders. QA tested each code drop so a programming path that wasn’t going to work was caught quickly and little code had to be thrown out. QA had enough time to do their job properly and checked how the feature functioned with other features. Analysts, QA, programmers, and domain experts generated other enhancement ideas not only for the project, but for other projects as there was more time for exploratory testing, prototyping, and thinking about the entire product/program. At the end of the iteration, the released product was more closely bug-free than the waterfall methodology. Lastly, QA had test suites that could be assigned in the future to other QA members or customer support for re-testing prior to each product/program release.


Not only did we use this for estimating a single story, but we did an estimate on the entire product, [Cardiology software that was a patient record, drug-drug interaction, prescription sender, billing, ECG and other device integration, etc., etc., that is, a big product]. We did not do any planning poker game or variation ever, but had ACCURATE estimates by using the Feature Blitz as our method, meaning the one who was going to program the feature gave their estimate after domain experts and others (QA & Analysts) all mentioned ramifications of the code changes.


In two and a half years (including when we first started our scrum-agile-lean hybrid), we were only later than “a single day” on one sprint and less than a day late on three sprints (once was due to hardware load testing that uncovered a need for a hardware change). All other sprints were fully completed on time, with most sprints having work from the subsequent sprint started. (Our sprints were 2 weeks.)




---maximum L exceeded so shortened---
The answer to the question sometimes depends on how the company works.


But for an Agile/Scrum Team, the Team, the Department Head, & any Product Owners may all have valuable insights in how QA can continuously improve.


How can a Scrum Team work together, here's my often posted example:
Our department was able to double programmer productivity almost immediately; they were able to produce a User’s Guide for each feature while the programming & QA was happening, & they were able to release features most needed by customers in a truly agile & quick manner. This was accomplished by:


An analyst prepares ideas for a project’s features & then schedules a meeting (Feature Blitz) where all the development team--domain expert(s), programmer, code reviewer, SQA engineer, the analyst, & any manager that really wanted to attend--decide the features needed, their specs, their implementation, the proposed order they will be coded & list of dependencies, breaks them into iteration-sized mini-projects, & at the end of the meeting assigns people to each of the above roles for each mini-project. The specs are the notes & digital photos from this meeting. Next each member of the team enters estimates of hours for them to finish their role’s work for each iteration or mini-project. The managers, in Iteration Planning, then swap around any resources or mini-project to maximize the use of everyone’s time. Next there is a commitment meeting where the development team (the four roles besides domain expert) commits to their deadlines even if they have to do overtime, which rarely happened because people became good at estimating their work ability. Simultaneously during an iteration, the analyst writes the User’s Guide, the QA engineer wrote a test suite with corner cases & exceptions that programming may not have thought about, the programmer & code reviewer discuss the details of the implementation & do the coding. Obstacles & progress were discussed frequently among the whole team & communicated to management & other stakeholders. QA tested each code drop so a programming path that wasn’t going to work was caught quickly & little code had to be thrown out. QA had enough time to do their job properly & checked how the feature functioned with other features. Analysts, QA, programmers, & domain experts generated other enhancement ideas not only for the project, but for other projects as there was more time for exploratory testing, prototyping, & thinking about the entire product/program. At the end of the iteration, the released product was more closely bug-free than the waterfall methodology. Lastly, QA had test suites that could be assigned in the future to other QA members or customer support for re-testing prior to each product/program release.


Not only did we use this for estimating a single story, but we did an estimate on the entire product, [Cardiology software that was a patient record, drug-drug interaction, prescription sender, billing, ECG & other device integration, etc., etc., that is, a big product]. We did not do any planning poker game or variation ever, but had ACCURATE estimates by using the Feature Blitz as our method, meaning the one who was going to program the feature gave their estimate after domain experts & others (QA & Analysts) all mentioned ramifications of the code changes.


In two & a half years (including when we first started our scrum-agile-lean hybrid), we were only later than “a single day” on one sprint & less than a day late on three sprints (once was due to hardware load testing that uncovered a need for a hardware change). All other sprints were fully completed on time, with most sprints having work from the subsequent sprint started. (Our sprints were 2 weeks.)


<Sorry I was too lazy to retype, so I just pasted from another site I had posted it on. Other comments next.>



What to work on was whatever percolated to the top when stuck in this massive spreadsheet inspired by six sigma. The spreadsheet had the same tasks that we estimated accurately as mentioned above.


Programs were for medical specialties like Cardiology and included ECG device integration and the like into the Electronic Health Record.
Adam Sroka adam.sroka@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2016-02-02 21:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Face -> Palm
Post by ***@juno.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
[ The Feature Blitz as an alternative to meetings like Planning Poker Parties. ]
I participated in an agile-scrum group that implemented much from the lean
methodologies. This department was able to double programmer productivity
almost immediately—but there was some temporary stress increase as the
change from waterfall to agile was made—they were able to produce a User’s
Guide for each feature while the programming and QA was happening, and they
were able to release features most needed by customers in a truly agile and
quick manner. They were able to accurately estimate four 8-month projects
and deliver them on time while outperforming competing companies by a
factor of 4 times their speed, something I haven't seen since. They
An analyst prepares some ideas for a project’s features and then schedules
a meeting (Feature Blitz) where all the development team [domain expert(s),
programmer, code reviewer, SQA engineer, the analyst, and any manager that
really wanted to attend] decide the features needed, their specs, their
implementation, the proposed order they will be coded and list of
dependencies, breaks them into iteration-sized mini-projects, and at the
end of the meeting assigns people to each of the above roles for each
mini-project. The specs are the notes and digital photos from this meeting.
Next each member of the team enters estimates of hours for them to finish
their role’s work for each iteration or mini-project. The managers, in
Iteration Planning, then swap around any resources or mini-project to
maximize the use of everyone’s time, keeping in mind that changes may
require the new team member to meet with the analyst or others to get
up-to-speed on what happened at the Feature Blitz and that the new team
member may not be able to do the role’s work as fast as the one who helped
decide the particular implementation in the Feature Blitz. Next there is a
commitment meeting where the development team (the four roles besides
domain expert) commits to their deadlines even if they have to do overtime,
which rarely happened because people became good at estimating their work
ability. Simultaneously during an iteration, the analyst writes the User’s
Guide, the QA engineer wrote a test suite with corner cases and exceptions
that programming may not have thought about, the programmer and code
reviewer discuss the details of the implementation and do the coding.
Obstacles and progress were discussed frequently among the whole team and
communicated to management and other stakeholders. QA tested each code drop
so a programming path that wasn’t going to work was caught quickly and
little code had to be thrown out. QA had enough time to do their job
properly and checked how the feature functioned with other features.
Analysts, QA, programmers, and domain experts generated other enhancement
ideas not only for the project, but for other projects as there was more
time for exploratory testing, prototyping, and thinking about the entire
product/program. At the end of the iteration, the released product was more
closely bug-free than the waterfall methodology. Lastly, QA had test suites
that could be assigned in the future to other QA members or customer
support for re-testing prior to each product/program release.
Not only did we use this for estimating a single story, but we did an
estimate on the entire product, [Cardiology software that was a patient
record, drug-drug interaction, prescription sender, billing, ECG and other
device integration, etc., etc., that is, a big product]. We did not do any
planning poker game or variation ever, but had ACCURATE estimates by using
the Feature Blitz as our method, meaning the one who was going to program
the feature gave their estimate after domain experts and others (QA &
Analysts) all mentioned ramifications of the code changes.
In two and a half years (including when we first started our
scrum-agile-lean hybrid), we were only later than “a single day” on one
sprint and less than a day late on three sprints (once was due to hardware
load testing that uncovered a need for a hardware change). All other
sprints were fully completed on time, with most sprints having work from
the subsequent sprint started. (Our sprints were 2 weeks.)
---maximum L exceeded so shortened---
The answer to the question sometimes depends on how the company works.
But for an Agile/Scrum Team, the Team, the Department Head, & any Product
Owners may all have valuable insights in how QA can continuously improve.
Our department was able to double programmer productivity almost
immediately; they were able to produce a User’s Guide for each feature
while the programming & QA was happening, & they were able to release
features most needed by customers in a truly agile & quick manner. This was
An analyst prepares ideas for a project’s features & then schedules a
meeting (Feature Blitz) where all the development team--domain expert(s),
programmer, code reviewer, SQA engineer, the analyst, & any manager that
really wanted to attend--decide the features needed, their specs, their
implementation, the proposed order they will be coded & list of
dependencies, breaks them into iteration-sized mini-projects, & at the end
of the meeting assigns people to each of the above roles for each
mini-project. The specs are the notes & digital photos from this meeting.
Next each member of the team enters estimates of hours for them to finish
their role’s work for each iteration or mini-project. The managers, in
Iteration Planning, then swap around any resources or mini-project to
maximize the use of everyone’s time. Next there is a commitment meeting
where the development team (the four roles besides domain expert) commits
to their deadlines even if they have to do overtime, which rarely happened
because people became good at estimating their work ability. Simultaneously
during an iteration, the analyst writes the User’s Guide, the QA engineer
wrote a test suite with corner cases & exceptions that programming may not
have thought about, the programmer & code reviewer discuss the details of
the implementation & do the coding. Obstacles & progress were discussed
frequently among the whole team & communicated to management & other
stakeholders. QA tested each code drop so a programming path that wasn’t
going to work was caught quickly & little code had to be thrown out. QA had
enough time to do their job properly & checked how the feature functioned
with other features. Analysts, QA, programmers, & domain experts generated
other enhancement ideas not only for the project, but for other projects as
there was more time for exploratory testing, prototyping, & thinking about
the entire product/program. At the end of the iteration, the released
product was more closely bug-free than the waterfall methodology. Lastly,
QA had test suites that could be assigned in the future to other QA members
or customer support for re-testing prior to each product/program release.
Not only did we use this for estimating a single story, but we did an
estimate on the entire product, [Cardiology software that was a patient
record, drug-drug interaction, prescription sender, billing, ECG & other
device integration, etc., etc., that is, a big product]. We did not do any
planning poker game or variation ever, but had ACCURATE estimates by using
the Feature Blitz as our method, meaning the one who was going to program
the feature gave their estimate after domain experts & others (QA &
Analysts) all mentioned ramifications of the code changes.
In two & a half years (including when we first started our
scrum-agile-lean hybrid), we were only later than “a single day” on one
sprint & less than a day late on three sprints (once was due to hardware
load testing that uncovered a need for a hardware change). All other
sprints were fully completed on time, with most sprints having work from
the subsequent sprint started. (Our sprints were 2 weeks.)
<Sorry I was too lazy to retype, so I just pasted from another site I had
posted it on. Other comments next.>
What to work on was whatever percolated to the top when stuck in this
massive spreadsheet inspired by six sigma. The spreadsheet had the same
tasks that we estimated accurately as mentioned above.
Programs were for medical specialties like Cardiology and included ECG
device integration and the like into the Electronic Health Record.
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