Discussion:
[SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] How do you measure individual performance when using scrum?
mike@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-15 10:26:22 UTC
Permalink
This is something that has alluded me for a long time. How can you measure individual performance when you're working in a team framework, like scrum (and others)?


It would be nice to be able to use something like OKRs on an individual level. This opens up many opportunities for people to work how they like, but I'm wonder whether the cost is not being able to use a framework like scrum.


Does anyone have any experience of using OKRs with scrum? If so, what do your individual OKRs look like?


Thanks,


Mike
'Alexander Kriegisch' Kriegisch@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-15 11:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike.

I rarely write here, but today is the exception from the rule.
Post by ***@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
How can you measure individual performance when you're working in a team framework, like scrum (and others)?
Even if you could, why would you?
Post by ***@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
It would be nice to be able to use something like OKRs on an individual level.
What would be so nice about it?
Post by ***@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
This opens up many opportunities for people to work how they like
Which opportunities do you have in mind? I am specifically interested in opportunities not offered anyway by working in a Scrum environment without OKR.
Post by ***@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Does anyone have any experience of using OKRs with scrum?
I admit that I do not, mostly because I would refrain from measuring individual performance in a Scrum team (TEAM!) like the devil avoids holy water. While I think it is essential that everyone be ambitious about self-improvement, motivation is an intrinsic thing. So it makes sense to create an environment which does not kill motivation and in which ideas, creativity and self-improvement can thrive without becoming an impediment to teamwork. Measuring individual performance and paying incentives for meeting objectives often *are* impediments to teamwork, though, because what happens at the end of the quarter or year when you still have not achieved your individual goals while at the same time the team needs your help? This sort of dilemma is - maybe not on (bad) purpose, but anyway - usually created by measuring individual performance.

So how about improving and measuring team performance instead? Attention, if you start *comparing* team performances and incentivising them, teams might start to block each other in order to be better than others, which does not help the organisation as a whole.

Two questions remain:

1.) How do you know if you have self-improved? Well, I guess you know yourself and can set your own goals/objectives for self-improvement. If it helps you focus, write them down for yourself and check back on them once in a while. Do not compare your performance to other people's but to your own previous performance (yesterday's weather) and your objectives.

2.) How do you know as a team lead or as a Scrum Master if team member X performs well or not? Well, just be in touch, be part of the team or at least close to it if you are not an official team member, and you will know. You only need performance indicators if you look at the team from a distance. Look at a team and see how it works, who does what and who behaves how, and you know. You just know. This does not sound very scientific, does it? Well, because it is not. ;-) Knowing how someone performs if *not* (rocket) science.

Just my two cents
--
Alexander Kriegisch

Agile / Lean Coach

Scrum-Master.de - Agiles Projektmanagement
http://scrum-master.de
steve@ootac.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-15 13:07:15 UTC
Permalink
Couldn't agree more
mike@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-16 10:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Alexander,

To be clear, this is not something that I will force on any team and, while I appreciate any and all feedback, I'm not a green manager or scrum master looking to force my team to deliver faster and better by incentivising. This is a considered approach designed to provide better opportunities of working within an organisational structure.
Perhaps my subject was a bit linkbait-y. It's not about measure performance as much as it's about understanding performance and providing goals for individuals to achieve as part of a team.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Even if you could, why would you?
There's a few reasons. For example, some people like to have an objective measure of how they're performing. As a manager, I'd like to be able to objectively understand how everyone is performing. Again, this isn't about incentives or punishment, just understanding. How far up the pay scale (for example) can someone move, when do they get promoted? To what? Why should they? What kind of opportunities are there for them that fill their best skills? What happens if they want to become Head of XYZ - how do I (and they) know they have the right skillset and experience and, if not, how to get it?
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Which opportunities do you have in mind? I am specifically interested in opportunities not offered anyway by working in a Scrum environment without OKR.
I want to be able to provide complete flexibility in the way people work: no office hours and no office, remote working, unlimited vacation. Without understanding how people are doing, it's hard to know whether this stuff is working.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
motivation is an intrinsic thing.
Is it? What do you mean by that?
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
what happens at the end of the quarter or year when you still have not achieved your individual goals while at the same time the team needs your help?
This assumes that the individual goals are not geared toward the teams work. The reason I asked the question in the first place.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
So how about improving and measuring team performance instead?
I can already do that with the simple measures that scrum/kanban/dsdm provides.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Look at a team and see how it works, who does what and who behaves how, and you know. You just know. This does not sound very scientific, does it? Well, because it is not. ;-) Knowing how someone performs if *not* (rocket) science.
"You just know. This does not sound very scientific, does it?" No, not at all and that is the problem. I can say "hey, you've improved!" or someone can think "hey, i've improved", but how much? Along what vectors? What am I good at, what am I not so good at? Without some kind of objective measure of improvement, you'll just flail around in the dark.


It's also inconsistent advice given that most of what we do is work based on the objective measurement. What kind of message does it send when we say "Hey, measure that feature using Google tracking, or optimisely or some other tracking thing to see whether we should continue building that feature." or, let's do some user testing and gather some data" and then say "When measuring YOU, I'm just going to make some hand-wavy statements about how well you're doing based on my own and others' subjective opinion."


People in a scrum team are just that, people. "intrinsic motivation" needs a framework so *I* know as their employer, how I can help them be better at what they do.
Ron Jeffries ronjeffries@acm.org [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-16 14:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Mike,

Let me begin with a story. I was visiting a client in the far west. The team’s manager told me that Dave was the team hero. He held everything together. Without Dave, the manager told me, nothing would get done.

Later, I met with members of the actual team. Dave was not present. They told me in no uncertain terms that Dave was not the hero, Bill was. “Dave’s code never works,” they said. “Dave never gets things really done,” they told me. “Dave is a bullshit artist,” they advised.

“Bill quietly finishes Dave’s work, and fixes Dave’s many bugs. Bill is the hero around here."
There's a few reasons. For example, some people like to have an objective measure of how they're performin g. As a manager, I'd like to be able to objectively understand how everyone is performing. Again, this isn't about incentives or punishment, just understanding. How far up the pay scale (for example) can someone move, when do they get promoted? To what? Why should they? What kind of opportunities are there for them that fill their best skills? What happens if they want to become Head of XYZ - how do I (and they) know they have the right skillset and experience and, if not, how to get it?
What follows is my opinion, based on years of developing, managing, coaching, and teaching software. It is a strong opinion, a well-informed one, and the best advice I can offer you.

I believe quite strongly that the phrase “objective measure of how people are performing” is literally a meaningless noise.

People’s contributions are multi-dimensional. The desires of individuals on the team, in immediate management, in remote management, in people’s families and communities, are all multi-dimensional and often in conflict.

There is no discernible possibility of mapping a person’s capabilities and our desires about them onto some way to “objectively understand” how they’re doing.

Working with our people, all the time, to see how we are meeting each others’ needs, is a great thing to do. Imagining, for even a moment, that doing that translates into an objective measure, is simply mistaken.

The Japanese have a saying “Go to the gemba”. Be present in the workplace, with the people, watching what happens, talking with them, listening to them, helping them. That’s what works.

Regards,

Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries.com <http://ronjeffries.com/>
Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your tail, to get someplace better.
Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.
Cass Dalton cassdalton73@gmail.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-16 15:05:52 UTC
Permalink
As an analogy, is there an objective measure for code quality? Is it sloc?
(Hint: NO). It is just as difficult to come up with an objective measure of

quality for those who produce the code. Add to that the fact that half of
the job of a good developer is spent at the whiteboard, not the keyboard
and many of the contributions of a great team member come from helping
other team members produce quality code. SN objective measure is very
difficult.



The powerful ideas from agile should also apply at the individual level:
you should essentially have a retrospective with each team member. All of
the great self improvement power of a team Retro can apply to an individual

on their personal journey.


-Cass
Post by Ron Jeffries ***@acm.org [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Mike,
Let me begin with a story. I was visiting a client in the far west. The
team’s manager told me that Dave was the team hero. He held everything
together. Without Dave, the manager told me, nothing would get done.
Later, I met with members of the actual team. Dave was not present. They
told me in no uncertain terms that Dave was not the hero, Bill was. “Dave’s
code never works,” they said. “Dave never gets things really done,” they
told me. “Dave is a bullshit artist,” they advised.
“Bill quietly finishes Dave’s work, and fixes Dave’s many bugs. Bill is
the hero around here."
There's a few reasons. For example, some people like to have an objective
measure of how they're performin g. As a manager, I'd like to be able to
*objectively* understand how everyone is performing. Again, this isn't
about incentives or punishment, just understanding. How far up the pay
scale (for example) can someone move, when do they get promoted? To what?
Why should they? What kind of opportunities are there for them that fill
their best skills? What happens if they want to become Head of XYZ - how do
I (and they) know they have the right skillset and experience and, if not,
how to get it?
What follows is my opinion, based on years of developing, managing,
coaching, and teaching software. It is a strong opinion, a well-informed
one, and the best advice I can offer you.
I believe quite strongly that the phrase “objective measure of how people
are performing” is literally a meaningless noise.
People’s contributions are multi-dimensional. The desires of individuals
on the team, in immediate management, in remote management, in people’s
families and communities, are all multi-dimensional and often in conflict.
There is no discernible possibility of mapping a person’s capabilities and
our desires about them onto some way to “*objectively* understand” how
they’re doing.
Working with our people, all the time, to see how we are meeting each
others’ needs, is a great thing to do. Imagining, for even a moment, that
doing that translates into an objective measure, is simply mistaken.
The Japanese have a saying “Go to the gemba”. Be present in the workplace,
with the people, watching what happens, talking with them, listening to
them, helping them. That’s what works.
Regards,
Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries.com
Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and
your tail, to get someplace better.
Of course you might plummet to the earth and die, but probably not: you were made for this.
firepoet78@yahoo.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-17 12:42:05 UTC
Permalink
From what I can tell, your intentions are good. So why not give people the opportunity to improve themselves, and perhaps bond with their team in the meantime?

Here are two articles about individual performance rating. The first is from the NeuroLeadership group, who study things like why performance ratings themselves actually negatively impact people's performance (due to emotional overload): Kill Your Performance Ratings http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b

http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b

Kill Your Performance Ratings http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b Neuroscience shows why numbers-based HR management is obsolete.



View on www.strategy-busines... http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b
Preview by Yahoo



Another is an agile-inspired approach I invented called peer-based feedforward. It's a way for individual team members to provide and get feedback from their team in a very positive, supportive environment. Scrum Masters can run this for a team, and from the feedback I've heard from folks, team members WILL use that information to improve themselves: http://cl-feedforward.s3.amazonaws.com/feedforward.pdf http://cl-feedforward.s3.amazonaws.com/feedforward.pdf

If you want any help running the protocol, let me know! Also, if you do end up running it, I'd love to hear how it went!
mike@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-18 09:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Hey firepoet78,

Thanks, this is very useful.

firepoet78@yahoo.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-17 12:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Not sure if my last reply went through, so I'm trying again. Sorry for the duplication if it does show up twice!

I can fully understand where you're coming from, and have struggled with the same situation. However, my approach is slightly different -- give people the tools they need to give and receive feedback from their teammates, and the rest should take care of themselves. If you make it clear how progress happens from a career path perspective, this kind of group coaching will help people progress without being emotionally triggering or unfair.

Here's some very recent research (August, 2014) for you to sift through on this topic: Kill Your Performance Ratings http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b

http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b

Kill Your Performance Ratings http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b Neuroscience shows why numbers-based HR management is obsolete.



View on www.strategy-busines... http://www.strategy-business.com/article/00275?gko=c442b
Preview by Yahoo


I trust these guys quite a bit -- the coach training I received from them was top-notch, and from the feedback I've received from clients, it works. Intrinsic motivation comes from helping people see their own paths and being supportive as they walk them.


To that end, one way to boost intrinsic motivation is to give people an experience of direct positive reinforcement from their teammates. This protocol I wrote could be very helpful: http://cl-feedforward.s3.amazonaws.com/feedforward.pdf http://cl-feedforward.s3.amazonaws.com/feedforward.pdf. I've run it myself, and had other friends run it as well and they have all told me it works well. I believe teams leave this process very likely to move from norming to performing soon thereafter. I wouldn't run it if they are forming or storming though. :-)


If you need help running it, let me know! Also, if you do end up using it, I'd love to hear how it went!

---In ***@yahoogroups.com, <***@...> wrote :

Alexander,

To be clear, this is not something that I will force on any team and, while I appreciate any and all feedback, I'm not a green manager or scrum master looking to force my team to deliver faster and better by incentivising. This is a considered approach designed to provide better opportunities of working within an organisational structure.
Perhaps my subject was a bit linkbait-y. It's not about measure performance as much as it's about understanding performance and providing goals for individuals to achieve as part of a team.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Even if you could, why would you?
There's a few reasons. For example, some people like to have an objective measure of how they're performing. As a manager, I'd like to be able to objectively understand how everyone is performing. Again, this isn't about incentives or punishment, just understanding. How far up the pay scale (for example) can someone move, when do they get promoted? To what? Why should they? What kind of opportunities are there for them that fill their best skills? What happens if they want to become Head of XYZ - how do I (and they) know they have the right skillset and experience and, if not, how to get it?
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Which opportunities do you have in mind? I am specifically interested in opportunities not offered anyway by working in a Scrum environment without OKR.
I want to be able to provide complete flexibility in the way people work: no office hours and no office, remote working, unlimited vacation. Without understanding how people are doing, it's hard to know whether this stuff is working.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
motivation is an intrinsic thing.
Is it? What do you mean by that?
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
what happens at the end of the quarter or year when you still have not achieved your individual goals while at the same time the team needs your help?
This assumes that the individual goals are not geared toward the teams work. The reason I asked the question in the first place.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
So how about improving and measuring team performance instead?
I can already do that with the simple measures that scrum/kanban/dsdm provides.
Post by 'Alexander Kriegisch' ***@Scrum-Master.de [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
Look at a team and see how it works, who does what and who behaves how, and you know. You just know. This does not sound very scientific, does it? Well, because it is not. ;-) Knowing how someone performs if *not* (rocket) science.
"You just know. This does not sound very scientific, does it?" No, not at all and that is the problem. I can say "hey, you've improved!" or someone can think "hey, i've improved", but how much? Along what vectors? What am I good at, what am I not so good at? Without some kind of objective measure of improvement, you'll just flail around in the dark.


It's also inconsistent advice given that most of what we do is work based on the objective measurement. What kind of message does it send when we say "Hey, measure that feature using Google tracking, or optimisely or some other tracking thing to see whether we should continue building that feature." or, let's do some user testing and gather some data" and then say "When measuring YOU, I'm just going to make some hand-wavy statements about how well you're doing based on my own and others' subjective opinion."


People in a scrum team are just that, people. "intrinsic motivation" needs a framework so *I* know as their employer, how I can help them be better at what they do.
George Dinwiddie lists@idiacomputing.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
2015-02-15 18:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Mike,
Post by ***@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
This is something that has alluded me for a long time. How can you
measure individual performance when you're working in a team framework,
like scrum (and others)?
You could ask the other team members who they find most helpful in
accomplishing the team's goals.

The benefit that an individual brings to a team is not easily
quantified, and is certainly not quantified by any single measure.
Post by ***@mikepearce.net [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
It would be nice to be able to use something like OKRs on an individual
level. This opens up many opportunities for people to work how they
like, but I'm wonder whether the cost is not being able to use a
framework like scrum.
Does anyone have any experience of using OKRs with scrum? If so, what do
your individual OKRs look like?
Beware using any measure that penalizes an individual for helping the
team succeed.

- George
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
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