[SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Estimation Units in Scrum

[Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and Coach [e-mail] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]]

(Please know that I plan to share the results of my research back with the multiple forums that I've used to do this research)
Estimation units are not really part of Scrum, though Scrum does require that you estimate things at times.  Also, some estimation is done in our industry/Scrum that is not really required  by Scrum at all.

I'm very interested in the responses of the talented people on this list -- primarily those who have a wide array of coaching experiences in this area, but I'm also open to that "diamond in the rough" idea as well.

There is a lot of subjectivity, context, background, "why do we estimate stuff at all?", "what does effective mean?" etc around estimating.  I get that.  That's not my focus here.  I'm trying to keep my focus here laser sharp -- simply estimation units at multiple levels that people on this list have judged to be effective.  I'm aware that there is a plethora of estimation techniques and units out there.  I'm not interested in some estimation unit that you "heard about" or "read about".  I'm interested in a technique that you personally have actually seen practiced and you judged it to be effective (in your awesome and subjective opinion).

So...

1.  Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen at levels "higher" than the Product Backlog?  (i.e. at a vision, portfolio, strategy, chartering/pre-project/pre-team, roadmap type level)
2.  Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen for estimating Product Backlog Items? (i.e. at a release planning, program, sprint type level)

3.  Besides hours, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen for estimating the work in a Sprint Backlog?

If any of your experiences with effective units is solely more than 5 years old, that might be worth mentioning as well.

For me, the answers would be:
1.  T-shirt sizes
2.  none (remember, I asked... "Beside story points....")
3.  Tasks that are "right sized" to one day or less --- so "number of tasks"

So, please hit reply, and tell me what you've seen be effective IYO, besides the ones mentioned in the questions above.

Have a great day and... Scrum On!-------
Charles Bradley
Professional Scrum Trainer
Scrum Coach-in-Chief
http://ScrumCrazy.com

[Eric Gunnerson [e-mail] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]]

1) T-shirt sizing (for some values of “effective”)

2) Story counting or none (no estimates)

3) None (and by that I mean we had small enough stories that task estimates were slowing us down)

Eric
From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:14 AM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT] Estimation Units in Scrum



(Please know that I plan to share the results of my research back with the multiple forums that I've used to do this research)

Estimation units are not really part of Scrum, though Scrum does require that you estimate things at times. Also, some estimation is done in our industry/Scrum that is not really required by Scrum at all.

I'm very interested in the responses of the talented people on this list -- primarily those who have a wide array of coaching experiences in this area, but I'm also open to that "diamond in the rough" idea as well.

There is a lot of subjectivity, context, background, "why do we estimate stuff at all?", "what does effective mean?" etc around estimating. I get that. That's not my focus here. I'm trying to keep my focus here laser sharp -- simply estimation units at multiple levels that people on this list have judged to be effective. I'm aware that there is a plethora of estimation techniques and units out there. I'm not interested in some estimation unit that you "heard about" or "read about". I'm interested in a technique that you personally have actually seen practiced and you judged it to be effective (in your awesome and subjective opinion).
So...
1. Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen at levels "higher" than the Product Backlog? (i.e. at a vision, portfolio, strategy, chartering/pre-project/pre-team, roadmap type level)

2. Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen for estimating Product Backlog Items? (i.e. at a release planning, program, sprint type level)

3. Besides hours, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen for estimating the work in a Sprint Backlog?

If any of your experiences with effective units is solely more than 5 years old, that might be worth mentioning as well.

For me, the answers would be:
1. T-shirt sizes
2. none (remember, I asked... "Beside story points....")
3. Tasks that are "right sized" to one day or less --- so "number of tasks"

So, please hit reply, and tell me what you've seen be effective IYO, besides the ones mentioned in the questions above.
Have a great day and... Scrum On!
-------
Charles Bradley
Professional Scrum Trainer
Scrum Coach-in-Chief
http://ScrumCrazy.com<http://www.scrumcrazy.com/>


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[Adrian Howard [e-mail] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]]

Post by Eric Gunnerson ***@microsoft.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
So...
1. Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen at levels "higher" than the Product Backlog? (i.e. at a vision, portfolio, strategy, chartering/pre-project/pre-team, roadmap type level)
2. Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen for estimating Product Backlog Items? (i.e. at a release planning, program, sprint type level)
3. Besides hours, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen for estimating the work in a Sprint Backlog?
If any of your experiences with effective units is solely more than 5 years old, that might be worth mentioning as well.
1. T-shirt sizes
2. none (remember, I asked... "Beside story points....")
3. Tasks that are "right sized" to one day or less --- so "number of tasks"
So, please hit reply, and tell me what you've seen be effective IYO, besides the ones mentioned in the questions above.

Counting stories.

Thoughput / delivery rate of stories over time.

Adrian

[Cass Dalton [e-mail] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]]

Agree with story counting. Started with point estimation, but it was hard
for new people to really understand points and we spent so much time in the
estimation process. Other teams in our org continue to use points and
continue to decompose work poorly. We have to do some form of estimation
because we are a govt contractor and we have to track status and predict
completion for reporting. Counting stories has given us the best success in
projecting completion with the least amount of busy work and is no less
accurate than waterfall.

On 12 May 2015, at 16:13, Charles Bradley - Professional Scrum Trainer and
So...
1. Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have
you seen at levels "higher" than the Product Backlog? (i.e. at a vision,
portfolio, strategy, chartering/pre-project/pre-team, roadmap type level)
2. Besides story points, what, if any, effective estimation units have
you seen for estimating Product Backlog Items? (i.e. at a release planning,
program, sprint type level)
3. Besides hours, what, if any, effective estimation units have you seen
for estimating the work in a Sprint Backlog?
If any of your experiences with effective units is solely more than 5
years old, that might be worth mentioning as well.
1. T-shirt sizes
2. none (remember, I asked... "Beside story points....")
3. Tasks that are "right sized" to one day or less --- so "number of tasks"
So, please hit reply, and tell me what you've seen be effective IYO,
besides the ones mentioned in the questions above.
Counting stories.
Thoughput / delivery rate of stories over time.
Adrian
--
(CSSTWP.com the product team certification programme you can trust! ;-)

[[e-mail] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]]

The best estimates I ever had from a team were in "truffle fish". This was more than 5 years ago. They were deliberate in picking a non-nonsensical unit to emphasize that their estimates were of relative effort. I believe the success we had with these units had nothing to do with the units and everything to do with the team.

Best,


-greg

[Ron Jeffries [e-mail] [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]]

Greg,

Reply interleaved below. :)

Post by ***@280group.com [SCRUMDEVELOPMENT]
The best estimates I ever had from a team were in "truffle fish". This was more than 5 years ago. They were deliberate in picking a non-nonsensical unit to emphasize that their estimates were of relative effort. I believe the success we had with these units had nothing to do with the units and everything to do with the team.

Yes, this last. I really do not recommend estimation at all as a general notion. It is too easy to misuse and offers little value in the best of times. It obfuscates the real point of the Product Owner’s job, which is not to manage cost but to manage value.

Ron Jeffries
ronjeffries.com <http://ronjeffries.com/>
I'm really pissed off by what people are passing off as "agile" these days.
You may have a red car, but that does not make it a Ferrari.
-- Steve Hayes